My daughter wants an Ipod for Christmas but we decided it was too expensive. Then I saw a link for the new Rio Karma (review on CNET at Rio Karma (20GB) - Design - MP3 players - CNET Reviews) -- I think she should get this one instead. It's cheaper, and not tied to the iTunes service. On a related point, Boing Boing pointed out this interesting article about Apple and innovation. The point being that Apple makes technical innovations, rather than business process innovations. Of course, it's easy to copy and improve on technical innovations, and in particular to make them cheaper, once someone makes the first one. (Like the Karma, vs. the iPod.)